Speaker A. Why on earth do they want to check our uniforms in a final exam? There are enough stresses in taking an exam without having to worry about whether you are wearing a regulation shoe! But this really happened to my friend and five other kids, who were excluded from taking an exam because they were not in approved school uniform. Can you imagine? After five years learning and hours of revision and practice; you finally fail your exam and endanger your future simply because you are wearing the wrong kind of shoe!

Speaker B. Here I am at the school dance, wanting to ask Susan Turner for a dance  — and I look like a penguin! I had put a lot of thought into this. I really did want to look my best. I managed to borrow my brother’s Paul Smith jacket and jeans. But the most exciting thing was that I got Kurt Geiger shoes and a "super cool" Armani shirt  — in a charity shop for twenty five quid! I looked and felt great until the dance invitations arrived stating "black tie dress code only". I wonder if Susan fancies dancing with a flightless bird...

Speaker C. People can wear a set of clothes that are not identical but still be "in uniform". Bankers and stockbrokers, together with football fans and style conscious teenagers all wear a type of uniform. They can be strict about this. There are no jeans in the board room and you don’t wear a Chelsea shirt to a Manchester derby! Research has shown that uniformity is one issue but more important is being noticed and approved.

Speaker D. Technical security workers at this huge corporation belong to a privatefirm whose delivery vans, uniforms, bags and boxes are all the same horrible mix of orange and blue. The ingenious robbers discovered that this provided both a perfect disguise and a clever means of escape. They just walked into the security camera repair room and pretended to work for almost an hour  — nobody even spoke to them. Not even the genuine workers noticed that they had three additional "colleagues" and it was only the next day that the robbery was detected.

Speaker E. I am worried that they’ll notice and laugh. I’m trying to keep as far away from them as possible. I divide my time between the "chill out" area and the buffet. I’ll not chance the dance floor because everyone will notice. A cream taffeta wrap blouse, Italian Jersey dress and "fabulously edgy" strap thong shoes from Camilla Skovaard and  — unbelievably  — all of us scented with Jo Malone "Orange Blossom"! How on earth can three girls at one small party wear exactly the same thing?

Speaker F. Jimmy was a pirate and Becky was a queen. Cleopatra did an incredible tango with a policeman and I noticed a slow dance between Napoleon and a ballerina. I myself wore nice jeans, a new shirt and looked, I thought, pretty cool. But neither Cleopatra, the hospital nurse or the pilot would dance with me. I went home quickly and with a wide sombrero and poncho (holiday souvenirs) quickly transformed myself in to a Mexican bandit. I returned to the party within an hour. I can now tell you that Cleopatra taught me some crazy dance moves.

Speaker one: So, Lisa, I see your suitcase's out, you are going on a trip.

Lisa: I'm going to Taiwan on a business trip.

Speaker one: A business trip? How do you feel about taking business trips?

Lisa: I love getting out of London for, you know, 3 or 4 days, and staying at a nice hotel somewhere in Europe or America, and taking a flight somewhere.

Speaker one: So you like to travel?

Lisa: I love travelling!

Speaker one: You don't mind staying in different hotels and travelling by planes all the time? Don't you get bored?

Lisa: No, never. I mean, I don't always like the whole process of checking in at the airport because it takes a lot of time, but somehow, I've got used to queueing and stay calm. Then there's waiting for the plane. It's so long and tiring. I always feel bored, but as soon as I am in the plane and the doors close, I love it. No one can contact me, I can't contact anyone else, there are free movies playing and the food comes. It's wonderful!

Speaker one: So it seems you like living in a bubble. It's like a mini-⁠vacation.

Lisa: Well, when I go on business trips, my working day is up to 14 hours. In terms of my workload, it's a lot busier than when I'm at home, but somehow it does feel like a mini-⁠vacation. I stay in nice hotels, I get to take taxis everywhere, which I love to do, you know, I eat at great restaurants and meet some great people and do some important things. So yeah, I really do love the whole aspect of a business traveller's life.

Speaker one: So what do you do to try to avoid being bored when you're waiting to board the plane?

Lisa: Well, the first thing I do is I never get to the airport too early. As I'm a frequent flier, I check in and then I, unfortunately, go to the duty-⁠free shop. I say "unfortunately", cause it's unfortunate for my credit card, nit really unfortunate for me. I go to the duty-⁠free shop, normally I buy some perfume or cosmetics, sometimes I go to the business lounge, where there are free drinks and food, and if I do get to the airport a couple of hours earlier, I do some urgent work

Speaker one: I see. Sounds like an exciting lifestyle.

Lisa: It's fun! I wouldn't give it up for anything else.

Presenter: John, you’re one of very few major designers who are publicly committed to being fur-⁠free.

John: I haven’t used fur in my collections for over 16 years. I haven’t used leather for probably almost as long.

Presenter: What’s your opinion about using artificial animal products, like fur and leather, for example? They look so much like real fur that people might get the wrong idea.

John: You’re absolutely right. The technology has advanced so much that you’re able to get the look and feel of real fur. And also leather  — with leather, even more than with fur, the technological alternative is so obvious that there is no argument about it. It’s more durable and the price..., well, it varies a lot, sometimes it can cost as much as real leather. But the problem is that you’re propagating the idea that fur is acceptable by wearing it, because a lot of people can’t tell what is real and what is not real. You know, I’d refuse to use even artificial fur, but I can’t because of my clients, for whom fur is a status symbol.

Presenter: Is fur still a big deal in fashion? It seemed to go out of fashion for a while.

John: I know. I just got back from an appointment uptown. The weather was so nice I decided to walk down Fifth Avenue. The amount of furs that I saw on people and the amount of fur trim  — whether on men’s jackets or baubles hanging from hats to full length coats  — is surprising. And as an expert in this field, I can tell what is fake and what’s not, and the amount of real fur out there is shocking.

Presenter: I think your fight for cruelty-⁠free fashion is really tough. What about your opponents?

John: There are a lot of them. For example, the Scandinavian fur industry is one of many. It keeps trying to bring furs back into fashion. They educate young designers about the different animal furs available, giving them furs free, and helping them integrate fur into their designs. I’m actively engaging with young designers as well but in a different manner. In addition to my own participation in the ‘Cool vs. Cruel’ design contests, I’m a guest lecturer at some very prestigious city design schools. This semester I’m challenging students to create a collection ‘without any animal products’ at all.

Presenter: So are only industries like the Scandinavian fur one responsible for fur in fashion or are there any other reasons?

John: Of course, there’s a financial aspect to it. You know, I could have got millions of dollars in fur licensing by now. I could be rich. I would be able to live a much better lifestyle than I’m living right now if I had taken these offers. But I sleep in peace at night knowing that I'm not part of that. Then there's also this, you know, ‘well why should I worry about animals’ attitude with a lot of people who are in fashion. I think this is a major problem here. They only think about themselves, and their reputations. They are self-⁠obsessed. They are the worst!

Presenter: What do you think are some ways we can get the fashion-⁠wearing public and designers to care?

John: I think just constantly making them aware of the cruelty involved. Just a continuous bombardment with information. I believe in protesting without violence, of course, that’s exactly what we’re trying to fight against  — violence against animals. It’s a slow process which could be compared, maybe to..., for example, to the long-⁠lasting fight of black people for their rights. A hundred years ago people also thought that black people shouldn’t have the rights of white people. And 30 years ago people thought that smoking was okay for you. It’s all a matter of becoming a more advanced society and more caring individuals.

Presenter: John, are you a vegetarian?

John: You know, I’m trying to become a vegetarian. But having been brought up in a traditional way, it’s always a battle. I eat red meat once in a while. Now and then I also have chicken. I think today vegetarian food is available not only for well-⁠to-⁠do people but for everybody. The problem is dietary habits you have had since your early childhood. They are difficult to change. I know it’s a slow process, but I hope by the end of this year I’ll have completely cut meat out.

Presenter: John, what first made you aware of the cruelty involved in fur?

John: I think any intelligent person, no matter how old he or she is, realizes there’s death involved with this type of fashion. And you read about it and just become aware of how savage this industry is. When I was a young designer, I had a bunch of fur, which I used in one of my collections. And I thought, ‘Oh how beautiful, how fabulous!’ My clients also admired the collection. But then I became aware of what goes on, and I guess, more mature as an individual and a more of a caring person about the environment and the lives of helpless animals. It’s really depressing to realize that we aren’t doing enough to protect the environment. Maybe I even shouldn’t be showing fake fur. With the technology today artificial fur looks so real that by wearing it you are advertising it. I would like to help as much as I can with any of the organizations that want to help protect animals, including vocal protests as well as financially.

Presenter: John, you’re one of very few major designers who are publicly committed to being fur-⁠free.

John: I haven’t used fur in my collections for over 16 years. I haven’t used leather for probably almost as long.

Presenter: What’s your opinion about using artificial animal products, like fur and leather, for example? They look so much like real fur that people might get the wrong idea.

John: You’re absolutely right. The technology has advanced so much that you’re able to get the look and feel of real fur. And also leather  — with leather, even more than with fur, the technological alternative is so obvious that there is no argument about it. It’s more durable and the price..., well, it varies a lot, sometimes it can cost as much as real leather. But the problem is that you’re propagating the idea that fur is acceptable by wearing it, because a lot of people can’t tell what is real and what is not real. You know, I’d refuse to use even artificial fur, but I can’t because of my clients, for whom fur is a status symbol.

Presenter: Is fur still a big deal in fashion? It seemed to go out of fashion for a while.

John: I know. I just got back from an appointment uptown. The weather was so nice I decided to walk down Fifth Avenue. The amount of furs that I saw on people and the amount of fur trim  — whether on men’s jackets or baubles hanging from hats to full length coats  — is surprising. And as an expert in this field, I can tell what is fake and what’s not, and the amount of real fur out there is shocking.

Presenter: I think your fight for cruelty-⁠free fashion is really tough. What about your opponents?

John: There are a lot of them. For example, the Scandinavian fur industry is one of many. It keeps trying to bring furs back into fashion. They educate young designers about the different animal furs available, giving them furs free, and helping them integrate fur into their designs. I’m actively engaging with young designers as well but in a different manner. In addition to my own participation in the ‘Cool vs. Cruel’ design contests, I’m a guest lecturer at some very prestigious city design schools. This semester I’m challenging students to create a collection ‘without any animal products’ at all.

Presenter: So are only industries like the Scandinavian fur one responsible for fur in fashion or are there any other reasons?

John: Of course, there’s a financial aspect to it. You know, I could have got millions of dollars in fur licensing by now. I could be rich. I would be able to live a much better lifestyle than I’m living right now if I had taken these offers. But I sleep in peace at night knowing that I'm not part of that. Then there's also this, you know, ‘well why should I worry about animals’ attitude with a lot of people who are in fashion. I think this is a major problem here. They only think about themselves, and their reputations. They are self-⁠obsessed. They are the worst!

Presenter: What do you think are some ways we can get the fashion-⁠wearing public and designers to care?

John: I think just constantly making them aware of the cruelty involved. Just a continuous bombardment with information. I believe in protesting without violence, of course, that’s exactly what we’re trying to fight against  — violence against animals. It’s a slow process which could be compared, maybe to..., for example, to the long-⁠lasting fight of black people for their rights. A hundred years ago people also thought that black people shouldn’t have the rights of white people. And 30 years ago people thought that smoking was okay for you. It’s all a matter of becoming a more advanced society and more caring individuals.

Presenter: John, are you a vegetarian?

John: You know, I’m trying to become a vegetarian. But having been brought up in a traditional way, it’s always a battle. I eat red meat once in a while. Now and then I also have chicken. I think today vegetarian food is available not only for well-⁠to-⁠do people but for everybody. The problem is dietary habits you have had since your early childhood. They are difficult to change. I know it’s a slow process, but I hope by the end of this year I’ll have completely cut meat out.

Presenter: John, what first made you aware of the cruelty involved in fur?

John: I think any intelligent person, no matter how old he or she is, realizes there’s death involved with this type of fashion. And you read about it and just become aware of how savage this industry is. When I was a young designer, I had a bunch of fur, which I used in one of my collections. And I thought, ‘Oh how beautiful, how fabulous!’ My clients also admired the collection. But then I became aware of what goes on, and I guess, more mature as an individual and a more of a caring person about the environment and the lives of helpless animals. It’s really depressing to realize that we aren’t doing enough to protect the environment. Maybe I even shouldn’t be showing fake fur. With the technology today artificial fur looks so real that by wearing it you are advertising it. I would like to help as much as I can with any of the organizations that want to help protect animals, including vocal protests as well as financially.

Presenter: John, you’re one of very few major designers who are publicly committed to being fur-⁠free.

John: I haven’t used fur in my collections for over 16 years. I haven’t used leather for probably almost as long.

Presenter: What’s your opinion about using artificial animal products, like fur and leather, for example? They look so much like real fur that people might get the wrong idea.

John: You’re absolutely right. The technology has advanced so much that you’re able to get the look and feel of real fur. And also leather  — with leather, even more than with fur, the technological alternative is so obvious that there is no argument about it. It’s more durable and the price..., well, it varies a lot, sometimes it can cost as much as real leather. But the problem is that you’re propagating the idea that fur is acceptable by wearing it, because a lot of people can’t tell what is real and what is not real. You know, I’d refuse to use even artificial fur, but I can’t because of my clients, for whom fur is a status symbol.

Presenter: Is fur still a big deal in fashion? It seemed to go out of fashion for a while.

John: I know. I just got back from an appointment uptown. The weather was so nice I decided to walk down Fifth Avenue. The amount of furs that I saw on people and the amount of fur trim  — whether on men’s jackets or baubles hanging from hats to full length coats  — is surprising. And as an expert in this field, I can tell what is fake and what’s not, and the amount of real fur out there is shocking.

Presenter: I think your fight for cruelty-⁠free fashion is really tough. What about your opponents?

John: There are a lot of them. For example, the Scandinavian fur industry is one of many. It keeps trying to bring furs back into fashion. They educate young designers about the different animal furs available, giving them furs free, and helping them integrate fur into their designs. I’m actively engaging with young designers as well but in a different manner. In addition to my own participation in the ‘Cool vs. Cruel’ design contests, I’m a guest lecturer at some very prestigious city design schools. This semester I’m challenging students to create a collection ‘without any animal products’ at all.

Presenter: So are only industries like the Scandinavian fur one responsible for fur in fashion or are there any other reasons?

John: Of course, there’s a financial aspect to it. You know, I could have got millions of dollars in fur licensing by now. I could be rich. I would be able to live a much better lifestyle than I’m living right now if I had taken these offers. But I sleep in peace at night knowing that I'm not part of that. Then there's also this, you know, ‘well why should I worry about animals’ attitude with a lot of people who are in fashion. I think this is a major problem here. They only think about themselves, and their reputations. They are self-⁠obsessed. They are the worst!

Presenter: What do you think are some ways we can get the fashion-⁠wearing public and designers to care?

John: I think just constantly making them aware of the cruelty involved. Just a continuous bombardment with information. I believe in protesting without violence, of course, that’s exactly what we’re trying to fight against  — violence against animals. It’s a slow process which could be compared, maybe to..., for example, to the long-⁠lasting fight of black people for their rights. A hundred years ago people also thought that black people shouldn’t have the rights of white people. And 30 years ago people thought that smoking was okay for you. It’s all a matter of becoming a more advanced society and more caring individuals.

Presenter: John, are you a vegetarian?

John: You know, I’m trying to become a vegetarian. But having been brought up in a traditional way, it’s always a battle. I eat red meat once in a while. Now and then I also have chicken. I think today vegetarian food is available not only for well-⁠to-⁠do people but for everybody. The problem is dietary habits you have had since your early childhood. They are difficult to change. I know it’s a slow process, but I hope by the end of this year I’ll have completely cut meat out.

Presenter: John, what first made you aware of the cruelty involved in fur?

John: I think any intelligent person, no matter how old he or she is, realizes there’s death involved with this type of fashion. And you read about it and just become aware of how savage this industry is. When I was a young designer, I had a bunch of fur, which I used in one of my collections. And I thought, ‘Oh how beautiful, how fabulous!’ My clients also admired the collection. But then I became aware of what goes on, and I guess, more mature as an individual and a more of a caring person about the environment and the lives of helpless animals. It’s really depressing to realize that we aren’t doing enough to protect the environment. Maybe I even shouldn’t be showing fake fur. With the technology today artificial fur looks so real that by wearing it you are advertising it. I would like to help as much as I can with any of the organizations that want to help protect animals, including vocal protests as well as financially.

Presenter: John, you’re one of very few major designers who are publicly committed to being fur-⁠free.

John: I haven’t used fur in my collections for over 16 years. I haven’t used leather for probably almost as long.

Presenter: What’s your opinion about using artificial animal products, like fur and leather, for example? They look so much like real fur that people might get the wrong idea.

John: You’re absolutely right. The technology has advanced so much that you’re able to get the look and feel of real fur. And also leather  — with leather, even more than with fur, the technological alternative is so obvious that there is no argument about it. It’s more durable and the price..., well, it varies a lot, sometimes it can cost as much as real leather. But the problem is that you’re propagating the idea that fur is acceptable by wearing it, because a lot of people can’t tell what is real and what is not real. You know, I’d refuse to use even artificial fur, but I can’t because of my clients, for whom fur is a status symbol.

Presenter: Is fur still a big deal in fashion? It seemed to go out of fashion for a while.

John: I know. I just got back from an appointment uptown. The weather was so nice I decided to walk down Fifth Avenue. The amount of furs that I saw on people and the amount of fur trim  — whether on men’s jackets or baubles hanging from hats to full length coats  — is surprising. And as an expert in this field, I can tell what is fake and what’s not, and the amount of real fur out there is shocking.

Presenter: I think your fight for cruelty-⁠free fashion is really tough. What about your opponents?

John: There are a lot of them. For example, the Scandinavian fur industry is one of many. It keeps trying to bring furs back into fashion. They educate young designers about the different animal furs available, giving them furs free, and helping them integrate fur into their designs. I’m actively engaging with young designers as well but in a different manner. In addition to my own participation in the ‘Cool vs. Cruel’ design contests, I’m a guest lecturer at some very prestigious city design schools. This semester I’m challenging students to create a collection ‘without any animal products’ at all.

Presenter: So are only industries like the Scandinavian fur one responsible for fur in fashion or are there any other reasons?

John: Of course, there’s a financial aspect to it. You know, I could have got millions of dollars in fur licensing by now. I could be rich. I would be able to live a much better lifestyle than I’m living right now if I had taken these offers. But I sleep in peace at night knowing that I'm not part of that. Then there's also this, you know, ‘well why should I worry about animals’ attitude with a lot of people who are in fashion. I think this is a major problem here. They only think about themselves, and their reputations. They are self-⁠obsessed. They are the worst!

Presenter: What do you think are some ways we can get the fashion-⁠wearing public and designers to care?

John: I think just constantly making them aware of the cruelty involved. Just a continuous bombardment with information. I believe in protesting without violence, of course, that’s exactly what we’re trying to fight against  — violence against animals. It’s a slow process which could be compared, maybe to..., for example, to the long-⁠lasting fight of black people for their rights. A hundred years ago people also thought that black people shouldn’t have the rights of white people. And 30 years ago people thought that smoking was okay for you. It’s all a matter of becoming a more advanced society and more caring individuals.

Presenter: John, are you a vegetarian?

John: You know, I’m trying to become a vegetarian. But having been brought up in a traditional way, it’s always a battle. I eat red meat once in a while. Now and then I also have chicken. I think today vegetarian food is available not only for well-⁠to-⁠do people but for everybody. The problem is dietary habits you have had since your early childhood. They are difficult to change. I know it’s a slow process, but I hope by the end of this year I’ll have completely cut meat out.

Presenter: John, what first made you aware of the cruelty involved in fur?

John: I think any intelligent person, no matter how old he or she is, realizes there’s death involved with this type of fashion. And you read about it and just become aware of how savage this industry is. When I was a young designer, I had a bunch of fur, which I used in one of my collections. And I thought, ‘Oh how beautiful, how fabulous!’ My clients also admired the collection. But then I became aware of what goes on, and I guess, more mature as an individual and a more of a caring person about the environment and the lives of helpless animals. It’s really depressing to realize that we aren’t doing enough to protect the environment. Maybe I even shouldn’t be showing fake fur. With the technology today artificial fur looks so real that by wearing it you are advertising it. I would like to help as much as I can with any of the organizations that want to help protect animals, including vocal protests as well as financially.

Presenter: John, you’re one of very few major designers who are publicly committed to being fur-⁠free.

John: I haven’t used fur in my collections for over 16 years. I haven’t used leather for probably almost as long.

Presenter: What’s your opinion about using artificial animal products, like fur and leather, for example? They look so much like real fur that people might get the wrong idea.

John: You’re absolutely right. The technology has advanced so much that you’re able to get the look and feel of real fur. And also leather  — with leather, even more than with fur, the technological alternative is so obvious that there is no argument about it. It’s more durable and the price..., well, it varies a lot, sometimes it can cost as much as real leather. But the problem is that you’re propagating the idea that fur is acceptable by wearing it, because a lot of people can’t tell what is real and what is not real. You know, I’d refuse to use even artificial fur, but I can’t because of my clients, for whom fur is a status symbol.

Presenter: Is fur still a big deal in fashion? It seemed to go out of fashion for a while.

John: I know. I just got back from an appointment uptown. The weather was so nice I decided to walk down Fifth Avenue. The amount of furs that I saw on people and the amount of fur trim  — whether on men’s jackets or baubles hanging from hats to full length coats  — is surprising. And as an expert in this field, I can tell what is fake and what’s not, and the amount of real fur out there is shocking.

Presenter: I think your fight for cruelty-⁠free fashion is really tough. What about your opponents?

John: There are a lot of them. For example, the Scandinavian fur industry is one of many. It keeps trying to bring furs back into fashion. They educate young designers about the different animal furs available, giving them furs free, and helping them integrate fur into their designs. I’m actively engaging with young designers as well but in a different manner. In addition to my own participation in the ‘Cool vs. Cruel’ design contests, I’m a guest lecturer at some very prestigious city design schools. This semester I’m challenging students to create a collection ‘without any animal products’ at all.

Presenter: So are only industries like the Scandinavian fur one responsible for fur in fashion or are there any other reasons?

John: Of course, there’s a financial aspect to it. You know, I could have got millions of dollars in fur licensing by now. I could be rich. I would be able to live a much better lifestyle than I’m living right now if I had taken these offers. But I sleep in peace at night knowing that I'm not part of that. Then there's also this, you know, ‘well why should I worry about animals’ attitude with a lot of people who are in fashion. I think this is a major problem here. They only think about themselves, and their reputations. They are self-⁠obsessed. They are the worst!

Presenter: What do you think are some ways we can get the fashion-⁠wearing public and designers to care?

John: I think just constantly making them aware of the cruelty involved. Just a continuous bombardment with information. I believe in protesting without violence, of course, that’s exactly what we’re trying to fight against  — violence against animals. It’s a slow process which could be compared, maybe to..., for example, to the long-⁠lasting fight of black people for their rights. A hundred years ago people also thought that black people shouldn’t have the rights of white people. And 30 years ago people thought that smoking was okay for you. It’s all a matter of becoming a more advanced society and more caring individuals.

Presenter: John, are you a vegetarian?

John: You know, I’m trying to become a vegetarian. But having been brought up in a traditional way, it’s always a battle. I eat red meat once in a while. Now and then I also have chicken. I think today vegetarian food is available not only for well-⁠to-⁠do people but for everybody. The problem is dietary habits you have had since your early childhood. They are difficult to change. I know it’s a slow process, but I hope by the end of this year I’ll have completely cut meat out.

Presenter: John, what first made you aware of the cruelty involved in fur?

John: I think any intelligent person, no matter how old he or she is, realizes there’s death involved with this type of fashion. And you read about it and just become aware of how savage this industry is. When I was a young designer, I had a bunch of fur, which I used in one of my collections. And I thought, ‘Oh how beautiful, how fabulous!’ My clients also admired the collection. But then I became aware of what goes on, and I guess, more mature as an individual and a more of a caring person about the environment and the lives of helpless animals. It’s really depressing to realize that we aren’t doing enough to protect the environment. Maybe I even shouldn’t be showing fake fur. With the technology today artificial fur looks so real that by wearing it you are advertising it. I would like to help as much as I can with any of the organizations that want to help protect animals, including vocal protests as well as financially.

Presenter: John, you’re one of very few major designers who are publicly committed to being fur-⁠free.

John: I haven’t used fur in my collections for over 16 years. I haven’t used leather for probably almost as long.

Presenter: What’s your opinion about using artificial animal products, like fur and leather, for example? They look so much like real fur that people might get the wrong idea.

John: You’re absolutely right. The technology has advanced so much that you’re able to get the look and feel of real fur. And also leather  — with leather, even more than with fur, the technological alternative is so obvious that there is no argument about it. It’s more durable and the price..., well, it varies a lot, sometimes it can cost as much as real leather. But the problem is that you’re propagating the idea that fur is acceptable by wearing it, because a lot of people can’t tell what is real and what is not real. You know, I’d refuse to use even artificial fur, but I can’t because of my clients, for whom fur is a status symbol.

Presenter: Is fur still a big deal in fashion? It seemed to go out of fashion for a while.

John: I know. I just got back from an appointment uptown. The weather was so nice I decided to walk down Fifth Avenue. The amount of furs that I saw on people and the amount of fur trim  — whether on men’s jackets or baubles hanging from hats to full length coats  — is surprising. And as an expert in this field, I can tell what is fake and what’s not, and the amount of real fur out there is shocking.

Presenter: I think your fight for cruelty-⁠free fashion is really tough. What about your opponents?

John: There are a lot of them. For example, the Scandinavian fur industry is one of many. It keeps trying to bring furs back into fashion. They educate young designers about the different animal furs available, giving them furs free, and helping them integrate fur into their designs. I’m actively engaging with young designers as well but in a different manner. In addition to my own participation in the ‘Cool vs. Cruel’ design contests, I’m a guest lecturer at some very prestigious city design schools. This semester I’m challenging students to create a collection ‘without any animal products’ at all.

Presenter: So are only industries like the Scandinavian fur one responsible for fur in fashion or are there any other reasons?

John: Of course, there’s a financial aspect to it. You know, I could have got millions of dollars in fur licensing by now. I could be rich. I would be able to live a much better lifestyle than I’m living right now if I had taken these offers. But I sleep in peace at night knowing that I'm not part of that. Then there's also this, you know, ‘well why should I worry about animals’ attitude with a lot of people who are in fashion. I think this is a major problem here. They only think about themselves, and their reputations. They are self-⁠obsessed. They are the worst!

Presenter: What do you think are some ways we can get the fashion-⁠wearing public and designers to care?

John: I think just constantly making them aware of the cruelty involved. Just a continuous bombardment with information. I believe in protesting without violence, of course, that’s exactly what we’re trying to fight against  — violence against animals. It’s a slow process which could be compared, maybe to..., for example, to the long-⁠lasting fight of black people for their rights. A hundred years ago people also thought that black people shouldn’t have the rights of white people. And 30 years ago people thought that smoking was okay for you. It’s all a matter of becoming a more advanced society and more caring individuals.

Presenter: John, are you a vegetarian?

John: You know, I’m trying to become a vegetarian. But having been brought up in a traditional way, it’s always a battle. I eat red meat once in a while. Now and then I also have chicken. I think today vegetarian food is available not only for well-⁠to-⁠do people but for everybody. The problem is dietary habits you have had since your early childhood. They are difficult to change. I know it’s a slow process, but I hope by the end of this year I’ll have completely cut meat out.

Presenter: John, what first made you aware of the cruelty involved in fur?

John: I think any intelligent person, no matter how old he or she is, realizes there’s death involved with this type of fashion. And you read about it and just become aware of how savage this industry is. When I was a young designer, I had a bunch of fur, which I used in one of my collections. And I thought, ‘Oh how beautiful, how fabulous!’ My clients also admired the collection. But then I became aware of what goes on, and I guess, more mature as an individual and a more of a caring person about the environment and the lives of helpless animals. It’s really depressing to realize that we aren’t doing enough to protect the environment. Maybe I even shouldn’t be showing fake fur. With the technology today artificial fur looks so real that by wearing it you are advertising it. I would like to help as much as I can with any of the organizations that want to help protect animals, including vocal protests as well as financially.

Presenter: John, you’re one of very few major designers who are publicly committed to being fur-⁠free.

John: I haven’t used fur in my collections for over 16 years. I haven’t used leather for probably almost as long.

Presenter: What’s your opinion about using artificial animal products, like fur and leather, for example? They look so much like real fur that people might get the wrong idea.

John: You’re absolutely right. The technology has advanced so much that you’re able to get the look and feel of real fur. And also leather  — with leather, even more than with fur, the technological alternative is so obvious that there is no argument about it. It’s more durable and the price..., well, it varies a lot, sometimes it can cost as much as real leather. But the problem is that you’re propagating the idea that fur is acceptable by wearing it, because a lot of people can’t tell what is real and what is not real. You know, I’d refuse to use even artificial fur, but I can’t because of my clients, for whom fur is a status symbol.

Presenter: Is fur still a big deal in fashion? It seemed to go out of fashion for a while.

John: I know. I just got back from an appointment uptown. The weather was so nice I decided to walk down Fifth Avenue. The amount of furs that I saw on people and the amount of fur trim  — whether on men’s jackets or baubles hanging from hats to full length coats  — is surprising. And as an expert in this field, I can tell what is fake and what’s not, and the amount of real fur out there is shocking.

Presenter: I think your fight for cruelty-⁠free fashion is really tough. What about your opponents?

John: There are a lot of them. For example, the Scandinavian fur industry is one of many. It keeps trying to bring furs back into fashion. They educate young designers about the different animal furs available, giving them furs free, and helping them integrate fur into their designs. I’m actively engaging with young designers as well but in a different manner. In addition to my own participation in the ‘Cool vs. Cruel’ design contests, I’m a guest lecturer at some very prestigious city design schools. This semester I’m challenging students to create a collection ‘without any animal products’ at all.

Presenter: So are only industries like the Scandinavian fur one responsible for fur in fashion or are there any other reasons?

John: Of course, there’s a financial aspect to it. You know, I could have got millions of dollars in fur licensing by now. I could be rich. I would be able to live a much better lifestyle than I’m living right now if I had taken these offers. But I sleep in peace at night knowing that I'm not part of that. Then there's also this, you know, ‘well why should I worry about animals’ attitude with a lot of people who are in fashion. I think this is a major problem here. They only think about themselves, and their reputations. They are self-⁠obsessed. They are the worst!

Presenter: What do you think are some ways we can get the fashion-⁠wearing public and designers to care?

John: I think just constantly making them aware of the cruelty involved. Just a continuous bombardment with information. I believe in protesting without violence, of course, that’s exactly what we’re trying to fight against  — violence against animals. It’s a slow process which could be compared, maybe to..., for example, to the long-⁠lasting fight of black people for their rights. A hundred years ago people also thought that black people shouldn’t have the rights of white people. And 30 years ago people thought that smoking was okay for you. It’s all a matter of becoming a more advanced society and more caring individuals.

Presenter: John, are you a vegetarian?

John: You know, I’m trying to become a vegetarian. But having been brought up in a traditional way, it’s always a battle. I eat red meat once in a while. Now and then I also have chicken. I think today vegetarian food is available not only for well-⁠to-⁠do people but for everybody. The problem is dietary habits you have had since your early childhood. They are difficult to change. I know it’s a slow process, but I hope by the end of this year I’ll have completely cut meat out.

Presenter: John, what first made you aware of the cruelty involved in fur?

John: I think any intelligent person, no matter how old he or she is, realizes there’s death involved with this type of fashion. And you read about it and just become aware of how savage this industry is. When I was a young designer, I had a bunch of fur, which I used in one of my collections. And I thought, ‘Oh how beautiful, how fabulous!’ My clients also admired the collection. But then I became aware of what goes on, and I guess, more mature as an individual and a more of a caring person about the environment and the lives of helpless animals. It’s really depressing to realize that we aren’t doing enough to protect the environment. Maybe I even shouldn’t be showing fake fur. With the technology today artificial fur looks so real that by wearing it you are advertising it. I would like to help as much as I can with any of the organizations that want to help protect animals, including vocal protests as well as financially.